Future cooperation needs.

LHHsu at winbond.com.tw LHHsu at winbond.com.tw
Thu Apr 7 14:02:27 CEST 2005


Hello Lm-sensors team :
	I sent the email listed below. Do you have any recommendation? 
BR
LH Hsu

-----Original Message-----
From: PI10 LHHsu 
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 7:13 PM
To: Rudolf Marek; PI14 HUANG0
Cc: khali at linux-fr.org; PI14 DZSHEN; sensors at Stimpy.netroedge.com
Subject: RE: Future cooperation needs.

Hello Lm-sensors team :
	This is LH Hsu, software coordinator of Winbond computer related
product. I appreciate you contribution for Linux design and kind help
for hardware monitor development of our staff.
	Chunhao  works in mainland China. Currently I am in business
trip in China. Most of time I work at Taiwan. The area of Taiwan is
closed to mother board maker I can do my best to have cooperation.
	Your  meaning is you need the data sheet., especially SMBus
part. Some of mother board maker or chip set maker are not public that.
I can not get all of data sheet or mother board information. I suggest
you got the mother board and Winbond chip mounted Super IO, 78x or 79x).
Please send me the mother board maker vendor, mother board model, south
bridge brand , south bridge chipset no and your requirement. I can do my
best to collect information. It is impossible for mother board maker to
release chipset number of all model. I can consult mother board maker
about Winbond product.  
	Some information of mother board maker is confidential. If it is
required for your development, you can  let me know, too. I try to do.
	DZShen is the coordinator of Linux development. He is familiar
with Linux design. Please send your requirement ,too.
 Best Regards
 LH Hsu


-----Original Message-----
From: Rudolf Marek [mailto:R.Marek at sh.cvut.cz] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:29 AM
To: PI14 HUANG0
Cc: R.Marek at sh.cvut.cz; khali at linux-fr.org; PI10 LHHsu; PI14 DZSHEN;
PI13 CFLi; sensors at Stimpy.netroedge.com
Subject: Future cooperation needs.

Opps, I missed my subject. Sorry.

Hello,

> I can understand your feelings and complaint absolutely, I'm sorry for
> the trouble and obstacles brought you. I will discuss with my managers
> about it and express your meaning, I think we may improve it in our
> future cooperation.
> Thank you!

Thank you too for good coorporation.

I created some paper for your "responsible manager" staff.
Please forward it to them.

Needs of opensource software development model
on fields of system monitoring
-----------------------------------------------

Most of motherboard manufacturers do not support the hardware monitoring
capabilities of their products in free operating systems (or simply
other than Windows). Thus, open projects were created to build
support of the hardware monitoring chips "on their own".

On the Linux platform project lm-sensors created unified infrastructure
and
framework to support different hardware monitoring chips and busses. In
mean
time new chips or busses support is handled by members of lm-sensors
project.
They are working for free, or sometimes someone supports their work by
donating the hardware, in many cases not the chip makers but frustrated
third parties that are willing to support this project. Cooperation with
manufactures was limited to evaluation board donations or datasheet
support.

We are glad that Winbond decided to work on support of new chips with
us,
directly supporting our project with new driver. However to enhance our
future cooperation it is essential to understand specific needs of
open source development.

* Free access to documentation
Our source code is not proprietary, under license conditions anyone can
fix
or modify the source code. Chip driver maintenance implies access to
chip
documentation. Without that future maintenance of driver is not
possible.

* Free access to SMBus host documentation
Our drivers are build upon transport layer provided by other drivers for
SMBus (System Management Bus). It is essential that documentation to
this SMBus
host chip is also accessible. We do not need whole southbridge
documentation
we just need to know the way how to speak with SMBUS host. Please try to
convince some chipset makers about this, specially NVIDIA, SiS and ALI.
Most
of registers is done same way in all chipset following ACPI standart,
but
it is essential to know what is done differently.

* Support from motherboard manufacturers
This is very crucial and anticipatory point. There is no cooperation
these
days. When motherboard manufacturers follows recommended values of
resistors
nets, conversion formulas can be gained from datasheet. End users are
happy
that our project is supporting their workstations or company servers
instead
of "no support" from motherboard manufacturer. But from time to time
motherboard maker decides to use other components resulting in unknown
conversion formulas. Motherboard manufacturers do not want to disclose
information about the formulas or simply do not respond. This is very
strange behavior, we created our project to support different kind of
hardware and indirectly we are supporting motherboard manufacturers
products
by our work. We can't understand that this simple thing is not
understood.

* Additional obstacles set by motherboard manufactures
Some created proprietary monitoring interfaces or their own ASIC and
they
do not want to disclose documentation to this chips. Some are playing
hide
and seek.

Infamous examples:

Abit created their uGuru (in fact programmed Winbond IC), they do not
want to
disclose information even to "closed source" companies. Bad luck, we can
only tell to growing Linux userbase - avoid them

ASUS created their own proprietary ASIC chips, however their programming
interface is very very close to Winbond so our driver was developed on
"guesswork". We do not support new chips with no documentation today.
Unfortunately we can't drop support for already supported ones even if
it's a pain.

ASUS is even more creative, they started to hide SMBUS host, later they
start to hide "well known" monitoring chips, result is that we cannot
help much with this to end users. Complaints to ASUS do not work.

Summary
-------
Please try to explain the motherboard companies that they have unique
opportunity to have support of their monitoring chips in Linux with no
additional cost to them, when they will communicate with us and provide
documentation that is essential to support their motherboard.

Please try to explain to chipset makers that we really need parts of
documentation of their southbridge to be able to implement SMBUS host
driver. We do not need full datasheet only small part of it.

When it is not possible to disclose the chip documentation to public we
would like to have a possibility to members of our project to have
shared access to the documentation.

Thank you,

Lm-sensors team.


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